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Schnitz & Giggles
What happens when an American and an Austrian sit down together to debate culture? Is it going to be a victory for US? Will the Wiener take it all? Are they even making sense? Listen in and find out more about living la vida loca in Vienna & Austria.
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Schnitz & Giggles
[S2E5] How the Lost World of Vienna Shapes our Lives Today
What if the cultural heartbeat of Vienna still resonates in the United States today? Join us for a lively conversation as we unpack the hidden threads of Austrian influence embedded in American culture. From iconic figures like Arnold Schwarzenegger to the subtle presence of Austrian architecture and communities, we explore how these elements have woven themselves into the fabric of American life. With a nod to the Freakonomics Radio Book Club, we also dive into British historian Richard Cockett's insights on Vienna's historical cultural prowess.
Ever wondered how the humble shopping mall became a staple of American suburbs? It all traces back to a Viennese architect named Victor Gruen, whose revolutionary vision reshaped retail experiences across the globe. We take you on a journey through the bustling streets of Vienna, where innovation once thrived, drawing comparisons to other historic centers of creativity like Rome, London, and Paris. Reflecting on the shifts caused by the two World Wars, we consider how Vienna's role as an influential city evolved and what that means for its legacy today.
The shadow of history looms large over Vienna, from the rise of the Nazis to the enduring cultural identity it grapples with. In this episode, we confront these heavy topics, discussing the controversial legacy of figures like Karl Lueger and the city's societal transformation. Yet, amidst the weight of history, Vienna's grandeur persists in its architecture, coffeehouses, and innovations—echoes of a city that once led in science and technology. As we wrap up, we invite you to appreciate the simple yet profound Austrian contributions to our daily lives, like the invention of the sewing machine, and to embrace a mindset of gratitude for these historical advancements.
well, guten hallo and welcome back to the schnitz and giggles podcast. I'm michael, I'm lucas and uh, yeah, good to be able to talk.
Dr. Schnitzel:Talk at you again yes, there's some applause happening in the back yeah filming in front of a live studio audience today.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, it's a live episode.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, people are not, uh, paying attention to us really, but it's still, yeah it sounds about right.
MR. Giggles:It still sounds about right. The constant in our audience is they're not really listening to us. That's what it is. Yeah, put it on in the background. That's the story of a life. Yeah, sure is sure is.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, michael. Since you are an american, may I ask you a question from the american perspective? Yeah, I'd love to answer that question since you come from the great country of the us of a, how much influence of austrian culture have you noticed in the states as you just grew up there, lived there?
MR. Giggles:well, we had a governor okay from in the great state of california he was pretty influential an influential austrian who who came over and taught us how to run things for a while, I guess. So that's one piece, but I don't think that's really what your question was.
Dr. Schnitzel:No, not really that's maybe not. It's more like a personal success story of a certain man, but not as in the whole culture.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, but isn't that what influences personal successes of one man or woman?
Dr. Schnitzel:influences personal successes of one man or woman. I wonder if things are, if you change things in california that have become like a permanent change and maybe our austrian influenced changes that's a good question.
MR. Giggles:But that's a really good question. Yeah, I think we we probably delve too far into politics if we talk about a politician that way right, we're already going off topic.
MR. Giggles:We are yeah, I guess what your question makes me think of is, I mean in america, because we are a country built on immigrants, at least the what the american culture is. Now there's, you know, these pockets of of immigrant communities that hold on to their home country. You know, like we'll have like little parts of town that are named after the, the immigrant groups that are the country groups that moved into that area, and so there's that, those echoes of the motherland for for these groups of people. But I don't think there's really that type of community that's like or that type of thing that's very noticeable of, like the austrian diaspora in america.
Dr. Schnitzel:Is that what you're asking? Yeah, I mean one thing I did notice. That's the only thing I can maybe talk about as an outsider. I did notice that there are a couple of viennas in the states, that is true. I think there's like four or five yeah, there are towns that are called.
MR. Giggles:There's one in virginia and one in texas different, yeah, different states, and I don't know if there's any in virginia and one in texas.
Dr. Schnitzel:Different, yeah, different states, and I don't know if there's any salzburg or any other place like that's, not like austrian names, but yeah or any insbruck or graz.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, but that certainly speaks about the history of the immigrants yeah, I would imagine that that's probably a spot where you could probably find some descendants of of aust immigrants for sure.
Dr. Schnitzel:Have you ever been to one of the Viennas in the States? I?
MR. Giggles:haven't. We drove past one in, I think it was Georgia.
Dr. Schnitzel:There's one in Georgia.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, I think we drove right past it. We're like, oh, we could go home, but we were quite far away from home. Ah, too bad.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, I haven't visited any of the american viennas it would be interesting to find out and say like, go, what's up, walk up to the mayor and say, grüß gott, if there's yeah, I don't think we would get a positive response from that no, perhaps not that is one of the things that, like you notice, in certain places where there are these communities, where there's these echoes of of those places, and I don't there doesn't seem to be a very large or vocal like austrian american community. I mean, there's definitely italian american groups, there's german american groups, but really not austrian yeah, you're missing out on something there maybe. Maybe it exists, but it's certainly not as as vocal.
MR. Giggles:Maybe it's because austria is a smaller country maybe it's just a numbers game at that point, like are there elements of austrian culture or viennese culture that have somehow infiltrated american culture that we like, like, really know of? Well, I'm glad that you ask.
Dr. Schnitzel:I mean, you're welcome. Yeah, thanks, I came across a podcast the other day.
MR. Giggles:Okay, and schnitz and giggles podcast. Oh yeah, that's who. I just stumbled upon it. Hey, who are these good looking guys? Look like they're having a fun time.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah there's a podcast that's been around for some time, I think uh, I don't know how long it's called the freakonomics oh yeah freakonomics radio book club. I think it's even called yeah and a very popular book decade or so ago, so they seem to just interview authors of books, if my understanding is correct. Their format as a podcast, yeah, and there's one episode I could recommend to all of us. It's called how does the lost world of vienna still shape our lives?
Dr. Schnitzel:okay so if you google that, if you just look for that, how does the lost world of vienna still shape our lives? Yeah you will hear a very interesting episode. I think it's an almost an hour long episode. The host is interviewing this british historian called richard cockett. Yes, and he wrote a book about Vienna during a certain time period, the late 19th and the early 20th centuries. Okay, what he found is very, very astonishing and very interesting, even from an American point of view, I'd say not just from an Austrian point of view.
MR. Giggles:I'll be the judge of that, don't worry, I already made the judgment for you. Okay, it's very.
Dr. Schnitzel:American of you. Yeah, I know what's good for you, hi, you're really learning yeah, we're learning that's yeah, we'll bring you peace.
MR. Giggles:Proud of you oh my so.
Dr. Schnitzel:So if you want to listen to this podcast, it's very like the whole the actual host says on the show. He says this book is not a great read, but like, if you take it out of context it sounds really bad. But what he meant to say is it's not like a book that you just read, like like a novel. Okay, it's more like a dictionary dictionary yeah, more like a informational, informational book, yeah. So it's not that kind of book that you just maybe read before you go to sleep or something. So their approach on the podcast is a very, uh, academic one. I would say, okay. But if you want to listen to some details, yeah, we can only recommend this episode to you. But I was thinking maybe we could dumb it down, because we're not that smart perhaps to figure out. We'll try see if we can dumb something down.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, if we're smart enough, but we're pretty good to out. We'll try See if we can dumb something down.
Dr. Schnitzel:If we're smart enough to dumb it down.
MR. Giggles:We're pretty good to dumb it down. I don't know if we can figure it out necessarily, but we'll do our best.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, but pointing out a few of these things that made Vienna special in its historical significance, maybe you should listen to it too and tell me what you think about it.
MR. Giggles:All right, I will right now.
Dr. Schnitzel:Okay, all right, what do you think? That was pretty interesting episode yes, yeah, I liked it.
MR. Giggles:So what are your takeaways? Actually, I think it does fit in nicely with that question you asked now I know why you asked it that really there's a lot of ways that that vienna itself was pretty influential in some things that we now would would see as maybe like very specifically american cultural things.
MR. Giggles:He talked a little bit about the, the impact of austrians who had left vienna just prior to world war ii, or just right, you know, right after the ashlose or whatever that had influence on on hollywood and how a lot of different areas of kind of the growth of hollywood and popular culture that way was was driven by these, these influential austrians. So that was something I certainly didn't know right, still not sure how much I know or do not know about it because I didn't recognize any of the names. So I'll take his word for it that these people were were influential, one of the things that that I I think I knew yeah, pretty sure I knew this, that that the concept of the shopping wall was invented by an austrian crowds excited about that shopping mall.
Dr. Schnitzel:Maybe they disagree. No, they can't believe it.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, how could the american institution of a shopping mall be invented by an austrian? This is turning into a riot yeah, we didn't calm, calm our audience down a little bit, but our heritage but just the yeah, just that idea of something that like in, at least in in popular culture when I was growing up, the mall was was kind of a central figure of like it sounds horrible, but not don't sound horrible, but it's just like of high school society, right, like it's the place we would go hang out.
MR. Giggles:this is We'd go to the movies. We'd go just walk around and you know, there wasn't a lot of that, was just such a, and there were movies that were based around that concept too right, like there was a famous movie, not very famous movie, called Mallrats comedy.
Dr. Schnitzel:Never heard of it. Never heard of it. What's?
MR. Giggles:it called Mallrats, mallrats, mallrats. Yeah, okay, kevin Smith, king of Queens type guy. No, no, that's Kevin James. That's Kevin James.
Dr. Schnitzel:We're turning into a Kevin podcast the guy that's like Home Alone.
MR. Giggles:No, kevin McAllister.
Dr. Schnitzel:Okay, or the one with the bacon.
MR. Giggles:The one with the bacon.
Dr. Schnitzel:Isn't there someone called Kevin Bacon? Kevin Bacon.
MR. Giggles:Got me on that one. Yeah, kevin mitchell, outfielder for the giants no idea.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, I only know kevin costner huh to donka, all right.
MR. Giggles:Well, we're not. We're not a podcast about kevin we're not dancing with the wolves uh no oh man, I wish I was quick enough to have something good.
Dr. Schnitzel:We can always pretend I can just edit it in and out, like it's the vlog pause. Yeah, like whoa, he's witty, he's witty, he's fast Wow, what a clever guy. Oh yeah, we're talking about shopping malls. Shopping malls, shopping malls yeah.
MR. Giggles:Just Ironically, shopping malls are kind of dying off. In the States where they're now, you know, these big areas that were being used as malls are now being torn down or turned into other with other purposes. But over here in Vienna, they seem to be building new malls all the time, and there's, you know, bigger malls that pop up and are very popular places to go, or crowded with people at all hours of the day, it seems.
MR. Giggles:So it's now like this full circle of you know it started with a concept that I'm not sure all the details of, this Viennese architect that started the shopping mall, if he just like, left Vienna and started this up in the States or, if he like, started toying around with the concept of a mixed store shopping area. But now that it's coming back and being a part of Austrian culture, is is interesting because most people would think maybe like, oh this, this american way of doing shopping malls is now that's so american, now polluting it's so american. But it's actually, you know, a very uniquely viennese thing yeah, his name was victor grün, or gruen, if you pronounce it the american way, I guess, or something like that.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, the funny thing is that the thing about the shopping malls, of course what you have to consider is the dimensions would be fairly smaller back in the day. The one thing that anyone would say, like it's super obvious, but someone had to invent it in the first place is that I think this guy invented something called the Kaufhaus. Okay, so Kaufhaus means to buy, and house is just a house Like a big hall, a big hall of a house full of stores.
Dr. Schnitzel:So before that idea that was only like, you know, there you have one baker, you have one tailor, you have one, and so on, so on, yeah, uh. But he was the first to say, well, let's put him onto one big building. And that was maybe like just really literally, it's just a house, like an apartment house size and it's a concept that isn't like.
MR. Giggles:It's not like he thought up the concept on his own, because the idea of a market where you would go to find the things you wanted to buy is something that predated him.
Dr. Schnitzel:But there's maybe this idea of having it enclosed, having it within a centralized location that's always open and not just on market day plus, it's in a building and not just in a like open market, so it's you don't have to worry about the weather and you don't have to worry about the seasons, really that much and it makes shopping so much more convenient. I mean, those ideas were primarily taken on by the higher society, like the richer society at first. So this idea was first hatched in vienna and to this day, I mean there's. There's one famous place that's still operating, although the owners have changed for like 10 times I think in the last 100 years but there's a famous shopping mall called gern groß on the marilvestras strasse in vienna yeah, and there used to be one right next to it which was called herzmanski.
Dr. Schnitzel:Like those, those were two businessmen one was called gern groß and one was herzmanski and the stores are in there now competing against each other. What stores are in there right now? Stores are changing all the time. I mean, the gang was still has the media mark up there, and some famous restaurants oh, okay, yeah, yeah, I've been in there, I've been in that that little shopping center.
MR. Giggles:It does feel. It does feel different than what a normal mall would feel like, feels a little bit more open maybe than than what a modern mall um obviously they've done a lot of renovation.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, they've done over time and time again. So the building is actually super old, yeah, but they kind of went with the times so every 20 years, they would do like a major renovation of the place and make it look more modern. Oh, that's interesting's interesting.
MR. Giggles:I didn't realize that.
Dr. Schnitzel:But the history of it comes actually from those years that we're talking about here, like in the early yeah, the early malls, the early malls. And if you walk down Marhilferstrasse towards the inner city, you come to the Stiftskirche and the Stiftsgasse, yeah. So if you turn into the Stiftsgasse, I think there's a cafe in the ground floor now, but there's this super old building like the facade.
MR. Giggles:Yeah.
Dr. Schnitzel:And it still says the word Herzmanski on it, so that was also owned by him. And you can see, this is really like the Art Nouveau type of architecture, so that's what it originally looked like, if you can imagine. And if you just go back on the big street, on Mahilfestrasse, it's just all modern, right, you can't see any evidence of the history any longer. Sure, so they invented it here in Vienna, and there was lots of innovation concerning how to be more productive, how to sell more, how to get the customers to come and come to your stores, and this idea of a mall was really brand new at that time. And this guy he actually eventually went to the States and said there's way more space here. Yeah, let's make it bigger.
MR. Giggles:Very American of him, very American of him, very american of him. Yeah, I think that this concept of.
MR. Giggles:I think vienna now is is kind of put into a middle tier of european cities for people to visit, like it's not the first thing that people think of when they think of a european vacation. But it's crazy to think just even less than 150 years ago it was quite the opposite. I mean, vienna was really the, the hub and that was one of the interesting things from the podcast is that Vienna was really the source of a lot of culture and a lot of new construction techniques, a lot of philosophical thinking, economic thinking. There's a lot of things that really have driven the last 150 years of politics and economics that found their birth here in Vienna, at the University, university of vienna. Uh, just interesting to to consider, like how one city could have that type of impact on the western world yeah, a pretty cool place.
Dr. Schnitzel:It's a pretty cool place and I think, like I just pointed out, when people think of austria they would often think, okay, there's, there's mozart, the schnitzel and there's the sound of music. Maybe those are the the things that pop in in someone's mind if they hear the word austria, right, and if they don't mistake it for australia, first of all, right. But to realize that especially the viennese culture at that time and really it's the viennese culture versus the rest of austria, rest of austria is just completely different story was the fact that so many great thinkers and so many inventors and and all kinds of people who brought some great innovations into the world were at this place. I mean, one of the more famous names would be Sigmund Freud.
MR. Giggles:Yeah.
Dr. Schnitzel:I mean, I think it's not an exaggeration to say if you ever see your therapist and if there's anything going on in terms of psychoanalysis. That idea was conceived in Vienna in the 19th century.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's so deep of an impact that I think sometimes people don't even realize, like, what they're being motivated by or what their what their responses are.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, and that's obvious.
MR. Giggles:That's one of the obvious ones that that people are pretty familiar with, but just all the the amount of names that this guy was listing off that really had significant contributions but like we don't really know, know their names.
MR. Giggles:There's no big statue of him like somewhere yeah, their name hasn't lived on in some sort of economic theory that we, that we talk about. It wasn't named after him, but it really did have an impact on that interwar period. But then really in the post-world war ii kind of reconstruction of society and the emergence of all these new technologies and philosophical thought like that this was all coming out of. A lot of this was was really heavily influenced by the viennese folks that had gotten out yeah, and it ended at some point.
Dr. Schnitzel:That's also a fact, and he points out how the nazis basically were to blame for that. High society and this, really this, this hub for innovation, right to find an end as it it used to be. It's not in vienna still. It's still an innovative city in some ways perhaps, but not as as much as it used to be in those dimensions.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, and obviously a lot of reasons for that, but certainly the oppressive nature of the Nazi regime and the fact that many of these thinkers were coming from the Jewish community and a lot of them probably exhibited traits and acted in ways that the Nazi regime did not approve of, and so they were the first to go yeah, yeah, yeah, in Vienna at that time, would consider themselves first as Viennese and not necessarily anything else of their identity. Is that something that you think as a Wiener yourself? Is that something that has maintained a grip on people here? Like, if you ask somebody who they are or where they're from, are they strongly like, oh, I'm Viennese, or like I'm Austrian, you know, I'm Catholic, I'm Christian, I'm Jewish, I'm jewish, whatever, like. Is that like? Which identity do you think is or is the viennese side as important of an identity still as it was then?
Dr. Schnitzel:probably not to be compared exactly like to the times. More than 100 years ago, however, we did an episode in the first season about the differences between vienna and the rest of austria. To go back and listen to that, yeah yeah, go back and listen to that it's.
Dr. Schnitzel:It's also very recommendable. And I remember I at some point I mentioned that you know, people from rest of austria kind of look down on the viennese, but the reason for that is because the viennese look down on the rest of austria. So there's this this kind of love hate relationship happening between vienna and all the other provinces, and I mentioned in that episodes that sometimes when people from the rest of austria move into vienna and live there for some time, yeah, they actually adapt that and they become a little more arrogant towards the non-viennese in austria yeah so in a way, the city border is also really a border of culture and identity to this day yeah
Dr. Schnitzel:so I'd agree with that, and I think one of the main reasons is that if you lived in vienna back then and even today, is if you want to make a living here, if you want to just survive here, you have to have a slightly different mindset than on the countryside, since it used to be way more this melting pot of this, uh, this monarchy. That was huge. It was like one of the biggest countries in europe, with not only german speakers, but like different cultures and many different languages. So they all came to vienna and they had to find a way to to work together, yeah, and certainly they had to adapt to the german language and so, but still, their own culture was still woven into into the city, and you can still see this all around the world with big cities, but I think that particular time.
Dr. Schnitzel:So in that sense, vienna is way different than berlin, for example. So berlin is very I want to use the term pure in the terms of the german culture and maybe did not have as many people just moving in, because if you think of prague, if you think of bradislava and you think of budapest, even back in the day, you can travel to vienna in a fair amount of time. Yeah, today it's just a couple of hours by car or train, but since these places in europe were so close together, they all centered around vienna. It really made made a best of. It's like a like a best of album yeah if you're talking musical terms.
Dr. Schnitzel:So the best of the best came to vienna and to this day, the viennese feel that they are the best and that that's where. That's where the arrogance sometimes also might come from, especially towards the people living in lower austria or tyrol or anywhere else. Yeah, and speaking about that, what I kind of liked what they were talking about in this podcast is and I'm just summarizing in my own words what they were saying in the end, in the history of humans and humankind, there's always some place where you just have to be there. If you want to be somebody, you got to be there, and you can probably date it back to, like ancient babylon.
Dr. Schnitzel:So if you want to be somebody, you have to, you have to move to that city, or, or, if you're at some point in history, was the city of rome. You want to be somebody, you have to be in rome and you got a job, get a job there, you get an education there and maybe someday you'll make it, and so these places have been very influential on history and to this day, we have, I mean, echoes of the ancient cultures. Yeah, I mean, the roman culture, especially in europe, is still quite even visible. Yeah, literally. But speaking of london and speaking of paris, they all had some time where they were really influential on the whole world. Yeah, and what? This podcast, this episode, what the point that the author of the book makes is for some time it was vienna. Yeah, for some decades, vienna was that place.
MR. Giggles:If you want to be somebody, you got to be in vienna yeah, it's that interesting like crossroads of political power but then also like social and economic influence, where you know the thinkers of the day, the ones who are, who are publishing new theories or or who are actively involved in you know philosophical discussions or whatever. They all always seem to kind of go together.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, I mean, they mentioned on the podcast new york as kind of a reason, but then you know on the west coast with silicon valley, that that was a place where everybody was going and they were coming from all over the place but then taking on their own very unique identity, that then spread out. So it's this melting pot coming in and then that that melting pot of soup gets scooped into other bowls, not to kill a metaphor, um but you're trying, you're trying really hard, trying real hard to kill it, but it does I think that's the interesting thing about, like human development over time, is that there are these places and very rarely do these places hold on to the things that are happening there.
MR. Giggles:They get spread out because, as, as the center of empires whatever you want to see an empire as, at that point, yeah, there's a natural spreading out into other locations and it is kind of wild to think that. And now, you know, looking at vienna is, as a, you know, beautiful city, fairly well run, but it doesn't have that same feel anymore. Yeah, because it's.
Dr. Schnitzel:It is just the echoes of all that past greatness, right, and as you said, uh, just now, like thinking about as we're alive today, in this, in this generation. If you think, okay, if I want to be somebody, where would I have to go? And I think the words places like New York or the Silicon Valley they come up and just imagining, okay, we kind of understand this, especially Americans understand this, but even Europeans they often would say, if I want to make it, I'm going to move to America and go to New York or California, for that matter. Like, if I want to make it, I'm going to move to america and go to new york or california, for that matter. And I think we understand the concept, how it resonates and just to to be aware of it, that 100, 150 years ago, vienna would have been that place.
Dr. Schnitzel:So if you were growing up in I don't know, lisbon, portugal, and say, like, if you want to make it, you're going to move to vienna, yeah it's just a fascinating thought about how the best of the best basically came together and it's always, there's always this tendency of the best coming together in one spot and they create, like the, the arts and the sciences, and they actually they influence each other so much, I mean we talk, the music, the composers that were influenced by, by the political and the society, uh, anything that any development that was going on there I think of gustav klimt, for example, was also living at the time and also, as you just mentioned too, is that it all comes to an end, and I think that probably that the two main reasons are the two world wars, because after world war one, the whole monarchy collapsed, so vienna used to be this the capital city of basically central europe if you want to put it this way and then it was no more.
Dr. Schnitzel:And then they lost influence, already for economical reasons and for many other reasons, and then, as the society became more and more radical and the nazis in the 20s and the 30s started growing and becoming more influential, and then, which led to world war ii, I think that was the yeah, the final blow to cast out any people who are thinking differently, because that was the beauty of it. You know, you come here and you have this open-mindedness. Yeah, you can think of new ideas, and the nazis were very much about. No, you have to think this way only, and then only this way, and so, and even if you were not a jew or political opponent of them, even with just like an artist yeah, if you didn't fit into the mold, then it just became super unattractive to the work and in that kind of environment, right.
Dr. Schnitzel:So plus, of course, many people were forced to leave.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, not to forget that one has that long lasting kind of effect that post-world war two there were still people who like still the atmosphere and the mood in vienna was probably closer to the closed offness of the nazi regime than it was to the pre-world war one city where people come to, to learn and so those, those echoes kind of continue and and maybe are starting to be to be quieter or whatever.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, and for me, listening to it as a viennese, as an austrian, did I've actually answered the question? If I'm what I am, it doesn't matter, you did.
Dr. Schnitzel:Maybe in a long way you did, I don't know but yes, of course I identify as a viennese and I appreciate my hometown, my this the city, very much. However, when we think about the course of history, we can also argue that the demise and the fall of that great society that was in place back then was also sort of self-made or self-harmed, because one of the guys who responded to the calls if you want to be somebody and make it just go to Vienna was also young Adolf Hitler.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, that's right, and they also mentioned that in the podcast how he was very much influenced by the ideas of the viennese mayor at the time carl uega, who had already come up with anti-semitic yeah concept of, like a point of view, world, worldview yeah so the whole idea that the jews were to blame for society's problems right was not original with hitler right, and maybe it was not original with Hitler Right and maybe it was not original with Lueger either.
Dr. Schnitzel:No, it wasn't, but he was a prominent figure who publicly lived according to those values.
MR. Giggles:It's interesting that that is even a direct response to all the good things that were happening, because there were these elements that they thought were bad, of having people from all over the region coming in and setting up their lives in Viennaienna. That was what made vienna so great. But there was this fear that those outside influences, or even internal influences were were things that were going to eventually cause a downfall, but, ironically, that response is what caused the downfall the mayor of vienna, carl weger.
Dr. Schnitzel:He still has. There's a statue of him in vienna, which is a very problematic statue and there's always some it's always some protest.
Dr. Schnitzel:There's a protest going on and say like, take it down people say no, we have to remember our history but there's some graffitis on it and and people just spraying all over, yeah and like call him, he'm a racist, which is not a false statement but like how to deal with that. History has become a challenge for the generations after now, Like in our generation in our time. So how to deal with that legacy? And perhaps one big takeaway for like a practical takeaway for our listeners, Since we just don't want to talk about ancient history and say, well, that's in the past.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, a lot more schnitz and a lot less giggles in this episode.
Dr. Schnitzel:That's true.
MR. Giggles:Heavy topics to talk about. We saved all the giggles for the last couple seconds, oh boy here it comes, the.
Dr. Schnitzel:The takeaway from all of this is I mean, you can. You can go to a shopping mall anywhere in the world and you don't have to care about. Okay, it was a viennese person who invented that. Yeah, I just want to buy my shoes and my my stuff my clothes there. I want to go to orange julius.
MR. Giggles:Okay, hot dog on a stick. Okay, hot dog on a stick. Okay, yeah, classic food court, american mall, food court places yeah I'm talking about the frankfurt and the vienna west and everything that takes us back to episode one.
Dr. Schnitzel:That's right, also comes from from here.
Dr. Schnitzel:However, what I was gonna talk about, just as we're wrapping up here, is just when you move to vienna.
Dr. Schnitzel:If you live in vienna and you meet the people, the local people, and you wonder why they're so weird. In many ways, maybe it helps you to understand a little bit the mindset of the viennese, because the mindset of the viennese is kind of stuck sometimes. It's stuck in that time period, yeah, where vienna meant greatness, yeah, and that kind of greatness has faded away like an objective point of view here, but that greatness is still, I wouldn't say, in the hearts of the locals. And maybe you know, in a way, the viennese society, just general speaking. I can't speak for every individual, but in general they couldn't let go of that until right until now. Plus, you have to consider, we're being reminded of this history on a constant basis because we pass by not only statues, but beautiful buildings and beautiful architecture and and paintings and everything that's still here yeah and it tells, it tells us that those buildings speak to us and say like this is the greatness that we used to have and used to be, and where is it now?
MR. Giggles:Yeah.
Dr. Schnitzel:And I think that shapes the Viennese mindset a lot to this day.
Dr. Schnitzel:So if you're wondering why Viennese might come across a little arrogant or saying like I want to Want to protect what we- have now and you've probably been in that, in that situation as well, where, like a viennese with me, sit down with you and tell you why vienna is greater than all of america, sure, and or any other country. Yeah, that maybe comes from that idea that we lost it and we can't get it back and we don't maybe feel even appreciate it yeah, that sense that we're, you know, you're kind of reminded of, of the once greatness, once greatness once great yeah, is that, yeah, the greatness that once was?
Dr. Schnitzel:I'm not gonna correct your english here. Yeah, oh, maybe you should, maybe, um yeah it.
MR. Giggles:It was both protected and then rebuilt in the post-war years. That it, that it's still all here and you know, we're, from right now where we sit, we're a 15 minute subway ride to seeing all this, to walking through the hofberg palace and just being amongst all these buildings where these great thinkers or great inventors or whatever, we're also walking, and I think the echoes of those footsteps and and, as they said in the podcast, like the, the ghosts of this time period, they still, they still influence kind of the mentality in the, in the mindset right, and some I mean some of the coffee places are still the exact same places.
Dr. Schnitzel:Right, that those great thinkers were sitting and debating ideas that were revolutionary at that time and great things came, or great and bad things both. We have to say came of that and you can still have a coffee. Maybe not the same, maybe even some of the furniture might still be the same like it's, it's that it's that kind of tangible, yeah, but yet it's so far away and the thing that's living with that kind of mindset maybe produces the melancholy of the viennese people to some extent. Yeah, how sad. Wow, melancholy hits and giggles.
MR. Giggles:We've changed our, our pattern a little bit. Well, yeah, why not? Uh, come and and walk through the streets of vienna and get a feel, for it's not just looking. I can get really easy to just kind of get overwhelmed by the fact that all the buildings are old and if you're just kind of looking at them, on a surface level it's just kind of okay. It's another, another set of old buildings, but that there is some pretty significant stuff to to be seeing and looking around at and enjoying.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, yeah and just all right. I think would be good to recognize these things in your, in your personal life. I mean you, you have a house, you drive a car. I mean, houses are pretty old, but cars are not that old. Uh, you drive a car which is also oh, I don't, but even the whole idea of the inventions of computers and cars and everything. Mainly also the germans have a word to say in this, sure, but thinking of the german-speaking society was kind of very much connected in that time, as it is maybe today yes but scientists and everything.
Dr. Schnitzel:It's just there's so much that was new like a century ago. And if it was new a century ago it was probably coming out of germany or of v.
MR. Giggles:Yeah, this part of the world, at least this part of the world. So the impact of our thinking and our creative design can certainly last far longer than your own life and your own memory. So don't do stupid things. Listeners.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, appreciate it. Be positive influencers. I don't know if you know that the sewing machine was also invented by an Austrian, so anytime you wear clothes that are not sewn by hand, you got to thank Austria for the fact that you have some clothes on.
MR. Giggles:So that's a good point. That's a good point, you've really stuck it there.
Dr. Schnitzel:You don't know how to get out of this. Guten bye, bye. Okay, I guess it is just guten bye, bye.
