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Schnitz & Giggles
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Schnitz & Giggles
[S2E3] Swearing in Austria
Can you imagine a world where "full suitcase" is an insult? Welcome to Austria! Join us on the Schnitz & Giggles podcast as we unravel the mysteries of maledictology, the study of swearing and cursing, with the help of our fffff... fascinating hosts, Dr. Schnitzel and Mr. Giggles. Prepare to explore the unique landscape of "Schimpf-Kultur" in Austria, where swearing takes on four intriguing forms—including your mom. Jokes. Your mom jokes. That's what we meant to say.
Discover how Austrian baseball players might surprise you with their choice of English swear words, merging linguistic borders in a symphony of emotion.
We promise you'll gain a fresh perspective on how American and Austrian cultures treat curse words. Americans often replace harsher words with milder alternatives, whereas Austrians embrace uncensored language even on mainstream media. This cultural contrast can be quite an eye-opener for anyone moving to Austria, especially when they encounter familiar American music with its explicit content untouched. Through hilarious stories and practical advice, we guide expatriates and their families on navigating these colorful linguistic quirks without losing their cool.
Our discussion also highlights the charming yet perplexing Viennese style of swearing, where phrases can be both endearing and biting, depending on context. Through humorous anecdotes, like an Austrian child at a baseball camp using English swear words to announce a restroom break, we illustrate how taboo words vary across cultures. These stories underscore the importance of cultural sensitivity and adaptability in cross-cultural communication. Tune in for a blend of laughter and learning as we dissect the art of swearing through the lens of different cultures and languages!
Well, hello, guten, hallo.
Dr. Schnitzel:What am I doing? Come on Proper greetings here.
Mr. Giggles:Wow, guten hallo, wow, guten hallo. Welcome to the Schnitz and Giggles podcast. Willkommen, yeah, I'm Michael, I'm Lukas and we're coming at you to talk about something. Not entirely sure what we're going to be talking about. But, lukasas, what do you got for us?
Dr. Schnitzel:today. Well, today I brought with me the great word of maledictology.
Mr. Giggles:At least in german it's pronounced maledictology, maledictology yeah, I don't think in german, I don't think I've ever heard it.
Dr. Schnitzel:Well, yeah, that's a very fancy term for something. What some people might say is a primitive thing, because it's just the scientific word for swearing and cursing.
Mr. Giggles:Oh mal, maledict if you'd love a little bit of latin.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah the mal and the dicta.
Mr. Giggles:Bad word study, bad word study are we studying bad words we're studying bad words today oh nine, oh yeah, so are we needing to put in a warning?
Dr. Schnitzel:well, the biggest challenge of today's episode is going to be we're going to talk about swearing and all these bad words, while still remaining a family friendly podcast.
Mr. Giggles:Oh boy, so this is going to be a fine line we're going to walk today. Okay, so we're talking about bad words without using bad words.
Dr. Schnitzel:Right To explain a little bit about the motivation for this episode. Is it's not just because we're just like swearing to each other? We're not cursing each other here, or something or anyone else.
Dr. Schnitzel:Just a couple of sailors point, but since this podcast is supposed to help people moving here to austria and vienna specifically, they might be interested in realizing how austrians use swear words and other bad words in order to prepare themselves for that, for that encounter. Plus, it might be good to know what some of these things mean and we're gonna go into meanings of words?
Dr. Schnitzel:well, probably not gonna translate some of these people should know the meaning, but I have some word, I brought some words with me today and they will probably won't even qualify as as bad words in english okay but I'll get to that later on how vienna has its own special way of swearing and using foul language so we're gonna go ahead and try to offend both our german speaking and english speaking listeners.
Mr. Giggles:Is that what you're trying? Well, we always go full in. Yeah, I mean, we can probably offend the dutch as well again yeah, once again, we haven't done that, yet we've done it in spruce wing, called from amsterdam watch your mouth.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yes, so there's something that I found out. Okay, here's we're gonna take a slow intro into a very sensitive subject. There's something called schimpf kultur in german.
Mr. Giggles:I feel like I've. I think we talked about well schimpf kultur.
Dr. Schnitzel:We should talk about schimpf with uh, mr algebra, I think yeah, in the last episode of season one, because I think that word was new to him, although he, although he the concept, he understood the concept of it, but he never.
Mr. Giggles:You can't go long in Vienna without understanding the concept Without getting Schimpf. Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Schnitzel:So Schimpfen is a really interesting word because it means both to swear, to curse, but also it's like a rant or some insults Like Schimpfen is just the universal word for it all, or some insults Like schimpfung is just the universal word for it all, and having that kind of culture of how to yeah, how to maledict people they use that fancy term. There are actually four types of these schimpf culture. There are four types of schimpfing culture. Okay, If that is a German English word, now, sure, there's fecal. Okay, there's sacred. Yeah, yeah, there's sexual. And there is that doesn't really have, I think it doesn't have like a title, but it's the offense of your relatives, your mom, especially aimed at your mother or your sister. Yeah, if you know what I mean, no, I don't.
Mr. Giggles:Could you explain it? I will explain. I will explain more sure what you mean how much time you have.
Dr. Schnitzel:So the main difference between the English-speaking world and the German-speaking world is that a lot of English swear words are more in the sexualized area, like that corner. So that's what you use to swear and curse In Austria and also in Germany. It's more the fecal and the sacred that is used to express any strong emotions. I don't know if you've ever heard the term crucifix.
Mr. Giggles:Say that one more time Crucifix, crucifix, yes, like crucifix.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yes, exactly that.
Mr. Giggles:Crucifix, crucifix, crucifix.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yes.
Mr. Giggles:Sounds a lot like crucifix.
Dr. Schnitzel:It is, it's actually also a latin word that you have in english yeah, this is what a one great example of how people, if they're angry, they would just shout out crucifix in some context.
Dr. Schnitzel:I think I've never heard that it's become rare, like in the younger generation. It's probably more prominent amongst the roman catholic population, sure. And there's others like uh, himmel hergott, himmel hergott. Himmel is like heaven, hergott is like the lord, god, heaven or god. So that's like oh, it's one word, like one, like a himmel hergott, and they might be getting longer, longer like like, the more angry they get yeah although the sacred words to come from church come into the expression of their frustration that moment, yeah, I think.
Mr. Giggles:Uh, in thisfkultur it gets expressed a lot in English, it seems. Again on the baseball field, you know, a lot of guys have adopted English versions of what they would normally say in German, maybe.
Dr. Schnitzel:You talk about the Austrian players using English words. Yes, the. Austrian players using English words, but are they making up their own ones?
Mr. Giggles:No, no no, but I think they do.
Dr. Schnitzel:They would yell out jesus christ and I think that falls under the the alternative to crucifix.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, you know a lot of guys that don't follow jesus yeah, they're not calling for his help. Although I've ended up with some interesting conversations, you know those guys were, you know, start to realize that perhaps I'd be offended by that, given my, my own faith and my, my role over here, my job over here. There's been a couple times where guys have asked me if that bothers me, or or if they approached you as they approach me. Yeah, well, that's very considerate.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, it was very considerate, uh yeah, we austrians are very polite, have you heard?
Mr. Giggles:very, very polite. I've heard this a lot.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, they're willing to we're gonna ask for permission to swear in your presence.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, no kidding uh, no, I don't think that was what was happening, but I think there was just a. It was a nice demonstration of friendship that they were concerned as to how I might be reacting to that. But but it's interesting how you mentioned that maybe people who were of the catholic faith might be more prone to these types of swear words or this type of swearing, this type of culture, but that would not be the case with these gentlemen.
Dr. Schnitzel:No, well, maybe I don't know if they may be background. They have the backgrounds. Yeah, I mean my grandmother, for example. She would often, when she was just upset about something and she was raised catholic too she would say yeses, marie and joseph. Oh yeah, with jesus, mary and joseph yeah but that's.
Dr. Schnitzel:It's more like some people will even call upon, like saint anna or like some other saints, as they're kind of confused about something like really upset, as it's not like cursing someone, it's really more like something shocking has happened, expression or frustration, frustration, and then, with the call upon, like the guidance of the saints, that I think that's more like the original meaning of it. I mean, yeah, one thing that you americans have brought us when you brought us fast food, you brought us the nuclear bomb and you brought us jesus christ being a swear word, that is really impressive.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, I mean like, how do?
Dr. Schnitzel:you make jesus christ a swear word.
Mr. Giggles:That's really yeah, I don't. I don't fully fully get that, especially if people who might not acknowledge or have the same faith background, why would the name be be suddenly adopted as something that you would yell out when you make? A mistake or or perform poorly on the baseball field right.
Dr. Schnitzel:I would assume that the original idea was really to call upon the help of jesus christ in moment of frustration, but then I think it's really the heart that matters when you use those words absolutely.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, you got me, you could be using any word and yeah, that's why the idea of culture and being so offended by people's words is. You know, I I once worked with a gentleman refused to use traditionally accepted curse words, but he was. He was a pretty angry guy okay especially in the context where he was using these is it an american?
Dr. Schnitzel:yeah, I'm trying to be very general.
Mr. Giggles:I'm trying to be very yeah I'm speechless.
Mr. Giggles:So he would if he was using, you know, traditionally accepted curse words he would have the foulest mouth ever, but he would find alternatives in the same like he would. He would have the same anger that somebody else you know dropping f-bombs would have, but he would be using other terms that, uh, weren't as offensive but, like the emotion behind him was was just as offensive and it was. It was a bit off-putting because like, well, the words you're using don't bother me so much, but but why are you?
Mr. Giggles:so mad and that's the very interesting thing that there's the emotions behind words is probably the more real problem when people are employing such language.
Dr. Schnitzel:But the words also offend, right, because I could be using certain words but without that same level of anger and they'll still have to the listener the same amount of offense, perhaps as a matter of fact, I found something in my research that speaks exactly to that, where they did some, you know, did some surveys and research about swear words and how, like, how much they affect the other people, and they found out that, for example, if you just scream at someone like a written out nine, like like a written out like all caps, no, it kind of triggers the same emotion in the in the receiver of that. Yeah, what do you say?
Mr. Giggles:exclamation.
Dr. Schnitzel:Exclamation as if you were just swearing, like using any swear word to them, so like a really tone matters the tone matters and the volume matters. I think we, as humans, we get the message just by. You know. It's body language, it's, it's the tone of the voice, it's a volume and everything. We get the message of what you actually feel about me if you come on to me and like your eyes are just full of anger, and even if you say I love you and right, but everything else contradicts that.
Dr. Schnitzel:You can say all kinds of nice words, but the true emotion, the true intention will be become obvious. And that's what I think is really funny about for me as an austrian, looking at the american way of dealing with these things, because in austria, in german, we don't really have those, those words describing curse words.
Dr. Schnitzel:So you just mentioned the word f-bomb, for example oh yeah so when I first heard the word f-bomb, I was like in my german analytical way. In sense I was okay, the a-bomb is the atomic bomb, the h-bomb is the hydrogen bomb, like what? Is the f bomb like? What kind of bomb are we talking about here and who dropped it in the first place?
Dr. Schnitzel:we all know who dropped it usually and then, okay, why couldn't you just say at least the f word? Aha, okay, I get that. And then you have words like doggone it or something, is that, yeah, right, that's not a bad thing to say. Or what the heck yeah, what the heck yeah. So there's, there's all these, yeah, the replacement words, the replacement words.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, we Americans are really good at that.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, and it's confusing for a language learner what is okay to say and what not.
Mr. Giggles:I think you're about to touch on an important point, so I'm going to interrupt you really quick, okay, because I think that's like up until this point in the conversation. I don find that many differences in, maybe, american culture versus austrian culture, like the, the four categories, like I can think of both languages have all.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, both languages have.
Mr. Giggles:Have those categories, find all of them I mean we have, you know, your mom jokes um and tell me one I will not, but I think this is the relationship with curse words and then finding replacements or substitutions, like I feel, like in american culture, like the word itself has taken on such weight, right, that replacing it is okay because it's a different word, even though, like you know we're talking about earlier, the emotions behind it are the exact same.
Mr. Giggles:But because you've said tiddlywinks or whatever, that that's better than saying something else that we're avoiding saying on this podcast, because the word matters so much, apparently. So I think there's a few times where German words resemble, or German phrases resemble, a traditionally accepted curse word and they'll pop up like, for example though I like it all, the thing I'm thinking of is d-a-m-i-t. Okay, damit, yeah, damit, yeah, I know, yeah, and that shows up in worship songs at church, yes, and so, like for a, a language learner, all of a sudden you're just singing Whoops, edit that You're singing and damit damit, which just means so that or yeah, it's just a.
Dr. Schnitzel:It's just a conjunction.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, it's just a conjunction, but its function in a in that song makes it feel as though, like if you're just thinking of the way the word sounds and the similarity of it, you're all.
Dr. Schnitzel:No, it does a weird thing in the brain no, I know exactly what you mean, because I have been teaching that words to many, many generations of students oh yeah, learning the german language, and some of them, especially the american students, sometimes get a little uneasy when I write it on the board yeah, same when I once taught the word for bright in german, which is h-e-l-l yeah hell yeah and some people like why?
Dr. Schnitzel:why you write a bad word on the on the board? But that even confused me two times. Because okay, once is the. The translation said no, it's not a bad word on the on the board. But that even confused me two times. Because okay, once is. The translation said no, it's not a bad word. In german it just means bright, the opposite of dark. That's the word hell. But then the actual translation of the word hell would be huller. But that is not really a bad word per se in german. So if I just say huller, it just means like I'm describing the place right, hell, but I'm not cursing at all so where does this become?
Mr. Giggles:I mean, maybe it's obvious, but where does it become the problem for an expat, maybe an american person coming over to live in austria, like, where do we see these, the cultural tension rise up the most? Do you think what?
Dr. Schnitzel:exactly do you mean? I don't know like, why are we talking about?
Mr. Giggles:this like, like. Why are we warning? Okay, if we're talking about trying to prepare people who might move over here and encounter this different Schimpfkultur.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yes, here's maybe the most important, or two most important warnings that go hand in hand together. First of all, in Austria and Germany we do not have this kind of censorship that the American culture has come up.
Dr. Schnitzel:You know, when I first heard, I don't know some American maybe TV show or something, and they had the beeps going on in the middle of thing yeah, I was like this is funny, and I didn't even consider this to be a real thing when I first heard it I thought maybe they were doing that for comedic effect, not because that's what they had to do but then, oh, they were doing this for real.
Dr. Schnitzel:This is like they're serious about this. And first of all, if you watch austrian tv, there's not a lot of cursing on the show, but if there is, it's not censored. So maybe in a live show it hardly ever happens and you know they try to of course keep clean language, uh thing. But if it does happen it just happens, yeah. So that's the one thing and that ties into the second thing. If you move to austria and you turn on the radio and you can hear some artists that are actually american artists yeah, rappers or whatever there's no censorship, hardly any. Sometimes they play the clean versions of the songs just because it's part of the program, they ended up getting yeah, but sometimes they just don't care right.
Dr. Schnitzel:So here's a warning to anyone moving to austria and sitting in the car with with your kids and turning on austrian radio. Don't be surprised if it does happen that they're gonna drop all kinds of f-bombs or whatever all kinds of bombs.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, I would say that that probably is kind of the first level of this conflict or this interaction, like it's the first thing you notice, as you know, maybe as an american coming over that the that what you hear on radio stations is going to be a lot different than what you're used to hearing because of that, and it could be very jarring.
Dr. Schnitzel:You probably don't have that experience in the states right when you turn on the radio no, no, no, for sure not.
Mr. Giggles:and I think the most jarring for me was not so much even just listening to the radio in your car, because you're in your car, you're just kind of there listening to music and maybe it's the uncensored version you might notice, you might not. It kind of depends on if you're driving a team of middle schoolers to a soccer match or something. Turn it up, mister. Yeah, I love this song.
Dr. Schnitzel:I love the lyrics yeah, I love this.
Mr. Giggles:I love the lyrics. I remember and this doesn't have to do with austria, but I was shopping- in kosovo for groceries and just some really explicit songs were coming up.
Mr. Giggles:While I'm just walking through the grocery store, you know, buying some milk and eggs, and just being blasted with very vulgar songs and looking around like nobody gets it, and yeah, I guess, I guess the majority of the people in the in in the grocery store at the moment, you know, maybe their english isn't so good or it's just not. There's no context for them as to why these words they're just more english words that are coming out.
Mr. Giggles:They might understand what they are right, but maybe they don't understand the cultural connotations that are, yeah, like this song would not normally be played in a grocery store in the middle of a saturday afternoon, like it's, it's uh, so that that definitely would would be something. Maybe it's not just an austrian thing, maybe it's just generally in non-english speaking countries I would think so.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yes, it definitely happens a lot, at least in australia. But there's a funny story that happened some years ago. I was part of a camp like a youth camp, so teenager camp. We had a lot of leaders helping coming in from the States, so they also were like just young people, young adults, and they were like good Christian kids from Texas, yeah. And so they met those Austrian boys and they would hang out together and those Austrian boys were were thinking, hey, this, it's really cool that you are here, you get to practice my english guys from texas and so in order and that's the funniest part of it in order to accommodate them.
Dr. Schnitzel:They were like, okay, I might they did. My english is not that good, so I'm gonna try my best english. I'm gonna throw out the best english words I know, just to make you feel welcome here in austria yeah so they wouldn't even say like how are you doing, but how the f are?
Dr. Schnitzel:you doing yeah, like they would just throw in all kinds of words because like, hey, those are the words that the cool people use on those songs that we listen to in the radio. Yeah, so they threw in all the all kinds of phrases that they would have learned from listening to rappers and such and those Texans they didn't know how to handle that situation?
Mr. Giggles:Oh, I'm sure they were so offended. How do we respond to this? How do we respond to this? Damn, it's fighting words.
Dr. Schnitzel:And both groups had the best intentions for each other. They wanted us to get to know each other, and hang out. I think the Texans blushed a lot.
Mr. Giggles:Oh for sure, you might have maybe similar situations with baseballers like austrian absolutely some of the the first like kids camps that we were doing just shocked. You know these eight-year-olds, you know using language that I try to avoid using on a baseball field, and yet these kids are just like they can barely communicate with them in English and yet they've got a pretty solid grasp, it seems, of certain phrases and words, which I guess is a good lesson to learn, that, like understanding that the intent behind using those words isn't necessarily. I think the story from your camp is helpful because you know these, these guys were just using the words that they had, that they had learned, without much context or or full understanding maybe of what was going on, but they wanted to.
Dr. Schnitzel:They thought it was the right way to express themselves right, and these issues, to my knowledge, are not not really addressed in school.
Dr. Schnitzel:Like we're gonna learn english at school here, which sure is a big thing, they don't teach them first of all, they don't teach them, uh, any foul language oh, they don't need to, they need to, they've already got it, but they also don't I mean maybe there's some teachers out there I hope there's some teachers out there in austria who make the students sensitive to those cultural issues that might play out here or there yeah, I guess that would be a kind of a fine line to go as a teacher of like.
Mr. Giggles:Not wanting to be the teacher that is teaching all the american curse words, right, but also helping kids understand that, like you know, if they're visiting america and they walk up to meet somebody new, how the f are you doing? Is probably not the best way to meet a stranger.
Dr. Schnitzel:I mean, it might brush off most people's backs, but but they just wanted to show they're cool and they're hip they're like they're in tune with the times the lingo. But I think the main takeaway here is that swear words are basically words that express some kind of taboos. Yeah, and if you're an english native speaker, you have to understand. For us german speakers, those english words are no taboo, they don't mean anything to us yeah they're just sounds and when.
Dr. Schnitzel:If we kind of know, okay, they might mean that or this or that, all right. But we don't even know the weight and the effects those words have on english speakers because they're taboo words to them, because I, I think person is an austrian, the whole thing with your mom or your sister or something like that. That is not offensive to us in the first place. But if I just start using those words with a person from from that kind of culture, whether you would use it as swearing, I don't know if that's offensive. If I ask someone, hey, how's your sister doing?
Mr. Giggles:And they might already get all right. What are you doing? Why are you asking about my sister Get out of here? What are your intentions?
Dr. Schnitzel:I might get into trouble in that cultural context. So in the same way between English and German, if they use words that are just flagged, yeah, as inappropriate, it's the same if I taught you any, like some german words that are maybe not considered good language yeah, and you just go around, go to the baseball field and say hey, hey, dude, and then you just, yeah, just say whatever they might raise an eyebrow or two or three yeah, they might think hey, wow, he's actually, he's actually learning, he's really learning german now he's really part of us yeah, so what about then?
Mr. Giggles:I think we've had the experience, obviously, of native german speakers using english words. What about? What about generally, for, you know, kids specifically, like the general acceptance of native German speakers using German words? That would be potentially offensive.
Dr. Schnitzel:Of course, we have to tackle that as well. So, yes, of course, swearing and cursing is not a really well. It's not as easy to explain as a thought because the cultures are so different, and that's really something. There might be times in Austrian culture where using a certain word might be okay in the right context, even when we're talking about high level, like in political levels or something like that, you know, official statements, something more formal, something more formal even. It might be okay to slip in one of these words and it would not be censored, although it's a very fine line and usually politicians do not swear in public. Still, it's just a completely different way of accepting if someone is really angered.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, it's part of communication. It's part of communication.
Dr. Schnitzel:But first of all at school you learn okay, swearing is not a good thing, you shouldn't. And they even say, as I said in the beginning, most of the swearing in German has to do with poop. Yeah, most of the swearing in german has to do with poop, yeah, or something like that.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, a lot of the swearing in english does too.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yes, however, we don't have all those sexual words that the english has as well. So when we talk about swearing and talking about children growing up, yeah, it's I mean when you grow up and you're wearing diapers and everything you know, poop is just a natural thing.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, this goes into a whole nother podcast topic but that kind of has the same origin is.
Dr. Schnitzel:It's just completely normal yeah, it's a natural thing and so if you use those words uh, even as you, and then you might use them to express your anger about something it's not so far-fetched from just a regular life situation, yeah but when you talk about sexual things that is more of an issue, because children would not understand that.
Dr. Schnitzel:But poop they do understand. So I think that's one of the reasons why. First of all, like the swearing has taken on different developments in the german language and english language, it's kind of my personal shimp theory so and as you grow up, you learn that those words may might be a little too aggressive perhaps, and should not be used yeah, that actually does go back to another baseball camp story oh story time yeah, just so shocked the first time a little kid, probably like 11 or 12, announced that he had to go to the restroom again.
Dr. Schnitzel:There's a very american way of saying we have to go to the restroom we don't say what we're doing there, but he's like oh, you need to take a rest coach, I've got to go take a shit.
Mr. Giggles:I'm like what he's like yeah, I have all right go like it's just. This isn't how a 12 year old would normally announce or ask for permission to go, so to the toilet say that in english, or did you say no, he said in english yeah, which was but it was an austrian kid it was an austrian kid okay, just translating for you translating.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, that he was, this is what he was gonna go, the issue gonna go yeah.
Mr. Giggles:So I don't know, is that something that would normally a kid would say in german if he's asking permission to go to the toilet? You?
Dr. Schnitzel:would definitely not say to your teacher, like when you have to get up from in the classroom yes, so that would not be acceptable in german. That kind of cultural context probably what happens, assuming he just didn't know how to express himself differently, that he knew that one word right, because it's a cool word, yeah, yeah, it's easy word to learn.
Mr. Giggles:So you just try to express what's what was going on I, I absolutely think that that's what was happening, right like he didn't know how to ask in english for permission to go use the toilet and so he just said he was gonna.
Dr. Schnitzel:What do you need to go do? Although even, like you know, toilette is actually toilet the same yeah same word, so we should have known that. But a little detail on on your story that I just I just realized here is this it goes out especially to you if you're, if you're an expat in austria, austrians might be more specific about telling you what they're going to do on the toilet in german, or they?
Dr. Schnitzel:might tell you I need to pee or I need to poop, yeah, yeah, they don't just say I need to use the bathroom or the restroom, or whatever they might tell you, what exactly what the plan is for the next couple of minutes.
Mr. Giggles:Well, you got to know how long they're going to be. Yeah, like yeah, Excuse me.
Dr. Schnitzel:It's very precise. You don't have to. It's very exact, but we say it because it is not a taboo in as much. To some extent it is a taboo, of course, so that makes it so, so weird. I'm trying my best to look at it from your american perspective, as much as I can. It makes it so weird to yeah, that's what a podcast is. Wow, what a great guy, what a great friend I am.
Mr. Giggles:I might fail at this task, but I'm still trying, but what that's kind of.
Dr. Schnitzel:What I try to explain is the there is no hard line of this is really really. I mean, there's that might be some extreme words, yes, but there's lots of gray areas. Put it this way there's gray when it comes to those words and it might be fine to use it just here and it's not going to be considered as an aggressive expression of your frustration.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, it would have been very easy, I think, to respond to that kid in a harsh way yeah, like for something that was just kind of a general, not a very specific announcement, but he was just trying to convey information in the best way he could. I mean, the last thing he needed was for me to like yell at him for using an inappropriate word or whatever, but like I could see how that would have been, I mean, like even a traumatic intercultural like I had been around for a while so it wasn't like quite as shocking as maybe if it would have been in the first year or whatever, I'd had enough conversations to understand that this is possibly what was going on.
Mr. Giggles:It was your first day on the job. Yeah, because like somebody coming over just to run the camp you know I have coaches that come over and actually this maybe will need to be part of the conversation just a warning, guys that you don't need to respond in the same way you would respond to a kid in the States. If a 12-year-old came up to me in America and said hey, coach, I need to go to. I'd be like what.
Dr. Schnitzel:What does your mother know?
Mr. Giggles:you talk like that Another your mom joke, yeah, so it is interesting Like our reactions need to be tempered by understanding what the culture is Right. The purpose of this podcast Doing a service.
Dr. Schnitzel:Doing a service Plus. To really consider that the vocabulary is limited. The average 12-year-old Austrian kid might have learned a couple of things in English class, yes, but to really express some of these things, they just grab whatever they can get and then they will draw from lyrics and right and anything else.
Mr. Giggles:They would like any input they would get from social media or something he at least had a deep enough understanding to know what the word actually meant. So that was that was good.
Dr. Schnitzel:I guess there is a pretty might have pretty close. I wanted to tell you I might be gone a little longer than yeah you didn't want us to worry.
Mr. Giggles:He was anticipating being away for a while. What a nice boy.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, it's very considerate, very considerate, very considerate. So I promised you to introduce you a little more into the viennese way of swearing, because there's german swearing, there's austrian swearing, there's viennese swearing. I mean, lots of austrians would understand those viennese and maybe even use those words. The funny thing is that a lot of these viennese words do not even qualify for any of those original four categories that we introduced before Wow, they create their own new categories of Schimpfkultur.
Dr. Schnitzel:Let's put it this way, if I wanted to insult you in German If, if or when, that's the same thing in German, right.
Mr. Giggles:When I want to insult you this, that's the same thing in german, right, when I want to insult you this. May this, may uh explain a lot of conversations we've had in the past I might be retroactively offended, yeah see where this is going.
Dr. Schnitzel:So when I want to insult you, or if I want to insult you in german, I might just call you a suitcase.
Dr. Schnitzel:Just call me a suitcase it's koffer, yes, and if it would not be really really insulting you, I would call you a full suitcase, a full coffer, full coffer, and I don't know exactly how that word came to be a swear word. It's just calling someone an idiot, just a bag of junk. Maybe a bag of junk would be a good equivalent for that interesting. What I like is the word goshter. Goshen is actually the viennese word for mouth. Okay, yeah, so if someone says, keep your mouth shut, they would say hardly goshen or something like that.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, that's kind of already kind of aggressive, yeah, but you can take that word and make it into like a descriptor of a person, so a person who can never keep the mouth shut, especially saying things in a bad way, not just not just talking and talking, talking, but really more like trying to provoke others. Yeah, trying to pick a fight maybe or something. Yeah, not even thinking what they're saying. You call them hey gosh. Yeah, one of my favorite words. That it's just not really swearing either, but it's so. It's so interesting. I can call someone which translates from dialect into standard german, as a matter of fact, means unnecessary, so I make that a person.
Dr. Schnitzel:So you just say you're unnecessary you're unnecessary, like your whole existence is unnecessary. Yeah, that's rough, that's rough yeah that's, that's real mean but in viennese and that's also part of the swearing in viennese many of these words just sound so charming because if it's just a hey unnötiger, you don't feel offended.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, that's not offense right, it's not as german goes.
Dr. Schnitzel:German words go, that's not quite so offensive, yeah so if I can say, go shut the unnädiger or something like that, you know, like it's the unnecessary person that doesn't keep the mouth shut, yeah, it just doesn't feel as bad, I say, and that really sums up the way that the viennese, when they say bad things at each other, it might often sound very harmless and very.
Mr. Giggles:It's almost couched in kind of a nonsensical term. Yeah, I mean it's very creative yeah, in many ways.
Dr. Schnitzel:So they find very creative words of describing you and just telling you, like, what an idiot you are.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah, from their perspective, but you might not even feel that much insulted yeah whereas in germany, when you go to like northern germany, they might be much rougher with some of these words. They also have their own vocabulary there, but some of these words are just all german speakers would understand. For example, the word idiot itself is the word idiot in german. It's the same spelling, uh, just slightly different pronunciation. But I cannot recall anyone like a viennese calling another viennese or someone in vienna.
Dr. Schnitzel:Just the word idiot yeah I think in germany they might use that more often, because we have 10 other words for the word idiot and it's more like nuanced more creative, like it's like if I say, if I say, if I say it all implies different levels of. So there's also here or hazel, and and all these words that would not flag as a curse word. It's not as bad as the F-bomb or something.
Mr. Giggles:Yeah, sure.
Dr. Schnitzel:But still insulting in some ways, and sometimes I think we all know this. Here it is. I just pulled up another survey. They would ask people why they would even shimp, why they would even curse and, by the way, there's an expert on the melodictology here in Austria.
Dr. Schnitzel:She's actually originally from ukraine, but she's been living here, I think, for 10, 15 or 20 years, I don't know. Her name is oksana havrely, if I pronounce it right. So she's actually studied this at the university of vienna and she's kind of an expert on on german insults and cursing. I think she conducted a study too where they ask okay, why do you even use those words? And 74 in austria said it's more to let off some steam like negative emotions. Just let them go. It's not really directed at anyone, right? So that's the vast majority 74%, and then a lot of these times which that is the hard thing to learn as an expat 16%. It's just meant as a joke. I mean, that even happens in English.
Dr. Schnitzel:You might walk in the room and call your best friend, something like hey yeah, I don't know what I'm not gonna say.
Mr. Giggles:Come on, you say it.
Dr. Schnitzel:I'm not the american here and then only 11 percent say they would use it as an actual like insult yeah directed at somebody.
Dr. Schnitzel:So let's see 11, basically 10 of the times that you hear someone curse in austria might be really considered to be an offense, an attack, and the rest is just just for schnitzel giggles. Yeah, just for schnitzel giggles. However, I think and we talked about this before in the, I think, the first season is that some austrians might not be too shy about offending in public, sure as the term that we kind of coined, getting shimped at, yeah, at the u-burn at this, and maintaining social order requires right correction.
Dr. Schnitzel:Yeah for correction, so they might but sometimes they even like they don't use swear words to correct you.
Dr. Schnitzel:They might just use other words, but you feel like they're insulting you yeah so that is the one thing that makes people moving here, makes them feel uneasy, since they think this is just a nice place and it is such a nice place absolutely but then it's considered unfriendly. We talked about this before, many times before. Why is it considered unfriendly? Well, they just want to correct your behavior because you're doing it wrong, but in order to maintain order. Not really to, because that's not really too personal at times it's just more like correct your behavior and you're fine, and then we just don't care yeah we're still good.
Dr. Schnitzel:Just don't walk the red light at the street. Yeah, put your foot down all right.
Mr. Giggles:Well, hopefully we haven't offended too many of you. Well, we try to do our best.
Dr. Schnitzel:Oh, I forgot the dutch we want to offend. Well, I don't want to offend the dutch, but what's funny about the dutch is they swear differently than the germans.
Dr. Schnitzel:I found out they would often they do when they have some of these like regular standard words where they just, you know, call it some people idiots and so, but in order to curse, they would use diseases. So they would say I wish you get cholera, I wish you get the plague, so that there's like dutch terms for that, in order to express your frustration with somebody wow which I've never heard before.
Dr. Schnitzel:I mean, I could express the term in german. Yeah, I think it has a deeper effect, a more, a strong effect yeah, like they're legitimately cursing you yeah, they're cursing you like they're trying to put a curse on you.
Mr. Giggles:I wish you'd get sick 2020 must have been wild for the Dutch.
Dr. Schnitzel:I wonder, if that is taken on the Dutch language, that COVID is now part next to cholera and the plague and all these other diseases. Maybe they say I wish you'd get COVID.
Mr. Giggles:All right, all right, we might find out.
Dr. Schnitzel:That's a happy thing to end on thing to end on. Well, any, any of our dutch listeners that want to please enlighten us feeling pretty good right now, don't do wish as well, do wish as well. Please do wish as well there's no need to curse us.
Mr. Giggles:We like you we're just trying to understand we'd like to understand the world all right. Well, hopefully y'all come back uh, we tried to be, as speaking about a very sensitive topic, good and healthy yeah, good and health.
Dr. Schnitzel:I think we managed, didn't managed about this topic. We came through.
Mr. Giggles:I feel like we did Well. Good for us. Yeah, look at us.
Dr. Schnitzel:Pat on the shoulder.
Mr. Giggles:Wow, good job, let's go have some Schnitzel.
Dr. Schnitzel:All right, you'll hear us next time. Ja, guten Bye-bye, guten Bye-bye.
