[S1E2] Unfriendly Austria—The Unwritten Steps of Vienna's Social Dance

While they don't seem to be able to define the word expat, the edelwiscrackers are super enthusiastic about explaining everything there is to know about this subject.

If you think moving to Vienna is going to be like learning to dance the waltz, you're about to step on your own toes—and others' as well. What's so attractive about a country where it's really good advice to consult a local attorney before applying for your visa?

Listen to the experiences of Mr. Giggles who (despite having broken common elevator law) deserves the medal of honor for having moved to Austria not only once but twice. This experience has him sway to and fro between being speechless and writing one or two books about it.

As Dr. Schnitzel attempts to explain the fine line of how Austrians walk between following the rules and bending them with finesse, these two gentlemen succeed in not only offending the Germans or the Brazilians. No, they accomplish this for everyone on the planet.

From navigating the allegedly "unfriendly" German language to deciphering social cues that could freeze the Danube, this episode is a treasure trove of expat experiences.

Listen to how the edelwisecrackers dissect the paradoxical nature of Vienna's allure—simultaneously a city of dreams and daunting social labyrinths. Join them for an insider's guide to making Vienna not just a place you live, but a place you love.

Transcript

Mr. Giggles: 0:37

Well, hello and welcome to the 80-wise crackers, but we're coming to you from Vienna, a lovely neighborhood of local tower plots Docks in myself is what the kids say when you give out your address to something Doxing, doxing.

Dr. Schnitzel: 0:53

Now people are going to come over here.

Mr. Giggles: 0:55

Now all our fans are going to be outside the window in the plots cheering for us.

Dr. Schnitzel: 1:00

You said Stephensplatz, right, yes?

Mr. Giggles: 1:01

Stephensplatz. That's where we're recording. We're recording from the bell tower, so if you hear any bells, that's where they're coming from. Great.

Dr. Schnitzel: 1:09

Well, hello Lukas, hello Michael, thank you for this wonderful introduction. What an introduction Unrehearsed With almost life.

Mr. Giggles: 1:17

So what do you have for me today? Well, what are we going?

Dr. Schnitzel: 1:19

to talk about. We'll talk about the city of Vienna we opened up this topic last time and talking about living in Austria, in Vienna and especially we'll focus on expats living in Vienna, not current pats Not current pats, but expats and maybe former expats who used to be current pats and are now xxpats, x current expats. I'm not sure if all people actually know the term expats. It's the one friend we talked to last time, that's right. He was like what are expats?

Mr. Giggles: 1:52

Fair point Do you know, but I'm sure our listeners are smart enough to know what expats are Sure and they have search engines available.

Dr. Schnitzel: 2:00

That's right. We'll not define expats?

Mr. Giggles: 2:03

Yeah, because then we might show that we don't really know what expats mean.

Dr. Schnitzel: 2:07

That'd be embarrassing, a bit embarrassing. If you, by now, if our listeners, have looked up the definition of expats, I would claim that Michael, here is an expat, a current expat, correct. And my question to you is, as we open up this episode what is it like living in a foreign country, a country different than where you're from by definition?

Mr. Giggles: 2:32

Yeah, a country different than my passport country. I guess for specific clarity For all of you passport holders who might have been born in a country different than your passport, this is also complicated Very complicated Expat life, expat life, yeah it is complicated Third culture kids and third culture adults. Yeah, it's a really broad question. What life is like for an expat living? It's difficult, it's fun, it's great.

Dr. Schnitzel: 3:00

We have to remember that. Our listeners don't know that maybe, but you've moved to Austria twice by now, like in your lifetime, correct? You've moved here a couple years ago, then you moved away again back to the States and now you're back in Vienna, so you've been settling in twice, correct, which is quite the accomplishment. I would say Thank you, appreciate that. Yes, and you've lived in other countries other than the States, correct. And compared to the other countries in your experience settling in Austria, how was that for?

Mr. Giggles: 3:32

you Well, I think settling in a different country brings along a lot of challenges that you don't even realize that you are going to face. I mean, I think there's a lot of things when you're in your home country, in your native language, there's a lot of like bureaucratic steps that you just know about, or there's enough people around you that have gone through it that can explain these things easily, like the process of renting an apartment or a house or opening up a bank account or things like this. Sure, and those are hard enough, I think, in your home culture, but they're just kind of the steps that you have to take during daily life. But when you're settling in with a new footprint, into a new place, then it gets. It all happens at once, and so that gets difficult, and trying to get answers out of people as to what you really need to do can be difficult.

Dr. Schnitzel: 4:27

But you've mastered this. I mean right now, when you have an apartment we do indeed, yes, and you have a visa, you're legal, you're all good to go, yeah, we're paying our taxes.

Mr. Giggles: 4:38

Paying our taxes. Even the government knows where we live. We've registered Reaping the benefits of socialism as well.

Mr. Giggles: 4:45

That's right, yeah, living the socialist dream In this socialist paradise that is Austria. So you came out on top, basically. Well, at least in the upper third, maybe that's something. Well, I think, in our case, our second time around, we engage the services of a very good attorney, very good attorney who has helped us through a lot of these steps of the process, and one of her number one staff members who even took me to the visa office and helped us rent our first apartment. So you know, a good attorney with a good staff is good.

Dr. Schnitzel: 5:23

Yes, and you have the knowledge of the locals like available to you all the insights and the tips and tricks you might need.

Mr. Giggles: 5:31

Yeah, I think maybe our second time settling in was easier because it wasn't our first time. Oh wow, a little mind blowing wisdom that after you do things the first time, the second time gets easier. Michael would be setting a book group. The second time is always easier. Yeah, the reason.

Dr. Schnitzel: 5:50

I'm asking is what we're talking about just casually here. Some people do that for a living. There's this institution, what's it called Internations, and they basically do a survey every year. So they've interviewed people from 53 different countries asking when, okay, you've lived abroad, you've lived here and you've there. So they interview all kinds of people All around the world and they say which countries are easier and which are harder to move to settle in, get acquainted with everything, the people, the language, all these things. And Austria is always an interesting candidate when it comes to the ranking. Okay, so they're one of the 53 countries.

Mr. Giggles: 6:30

They're one of the 53. Makes sense very international community.

Dr. Schnitzel: 6:35

And, as you also know, is that Vienna has been placed at the top the number one city. That's right. Number one place to live which? Means that Austria must be yeah, should be pretty easy to settle in.

Mr. Giggles: 6:45

Probably hanging out towards the top of the list. Yeah, if you turn it upside down.

Dr. Schnitzel: 6:55

Because, out of those 53, in terms of settling in Austria, ranks 52. 52.

Mr. Giggles: 7:03

I mean at that point like kind of disappointing that they weren't 53rd. Yes, I mean, if you're going to be last, you might as well be fully last. Who, who was last?

Dr. Schnitzel: 7:12

Last is Kuwait. Kuwait Did we. It's the one country that's harder to settle in than last.

Mr. Giggles: 7:19

Do you do you know who was?

Dr. Schnitzel: 7:20

51st. 51st. Yeah, no, I didn't have the complete list with me, but I can tell you who's first. Okay, it's the country of Mexico, huh. And then comes Spain, and then comes Panama. Spanish speaking countries Top of the list Seems like Spanish speaking countries. Okay, who's list?

Mr. Giggles: 7:37

Oh wait you said Portugal was number three.

Dr. Schnitzel: 7:39

No, Panama, panama, because Portugal, portugal is not Spanish. That's why I got confused.

Mr. Giggles: 7:44

I was about to catch it, but uh, catch myself.

Dr. Schnitzel: 7:49

It's kind of Spanish what they're talking in Portugal, but they call it Portuguese. Yes, but they are like number 10. That I that I do know, because they're like the second European country right after Spain. So Spain is number two, portugal is number 10. So the other countries to live in or to settle in, at least, are not European for the most part, which is funny also because I thought well, first of all, I have to tell you this that intonations company Institute, they're a German company.

Mr. Giggles: 8:19

Okay, I think they would have stacked the deck a little bit.

Dr. Schnitzel: 8:22

So I thought like okay, they don't like the Austrians maybe. So they say oh, okay. It's, it's, it's a work with the numbers, and maybe then Austria comes out second to last. It seems pretty so. Look at the ranking of Germany. Germany comes out 50.

Mr. Giggles: 8:34

I mean that's still better than Austria? I guess yes.

Dr. Schnitzel: 8:39

And Switzerland is 47. Okay, so we have all the main German speaking countries Down towards the bottom, only beaten by Kuwait. Inexplicable. So maybe maybe, maybe, we'll. We'll solve it Now. This is the episode that solves all the mysteries Perfect Concerning how do you live in Vienna, how do you live in Austria and how do you settle in?

Mr. Giggles: 9:00

So thinking about settling somewhere. Like obviously, when I was explaining our time settling, it was all about the bureaucratic stuff, right, Like registering and getting a visa and paying taxes and all that stuff which I guess is a pretty important part of settling, right. Yeah, We'll run that at least not in Austria. But I guess I haven't thought too much about all the other elements of settling, like feeling settled.

Dr. Schnitzel: 9:26

Like, how welcomed you feel here, like or how quickly can you feel at home?

Mr. Giggles: 9:30

in this new place, feeling at home.

Dr. Schnitzel: 9:32

And especially when you meet the real people. I'm not talking about the people at the offices, and you know I mean they're like just doing the job Right, but like when you meet your neighbors, when you meet people on the streets or just around you.

Mr. Giggles: 9:44

Yeah, I guess it takes a little bit of time to. I mean in that case maybe I popped myself down a little bit off the top of settling in Like feeling at home is the benchmark. That's a hard one to figure out if you're actually at that point. But I guess the interpersonal relationships then are part of that right, your neighbors and all that Sure.

Dr. Schnitzel: 10:06

Do you have any? I'm speechless by this. I'm speechless.

Mr. Giggles: 10:15

Yeah, I guess, thinking about what it takes to feel welcome somewhere, something along the lines of, like, the friendliness of the people has to be something. So I'm not sure how friendly Austrians I know that like they're perceived as not being the most friendly people. Sorry about it Maybe.

Dr. Schnitzel: 10:35

Maybe the numbers will change your mind. I mean, I know my experience.

Mr. Giggles: 10:40

I mean the first night, first day we were here in the country, my son got yelled at for being in the elevator by himself as he was moving stuff into our new apartment. That wasn't very friendly. How did that happen? He was in the elevator by himself and as he came out one of our neighbors said hey, you're not supposed to be on the elevator by yourself in German. And he said I don't speak German. I just got here. And she's like well, why don't you speak German? He's like I got here yesterday and she's like well, that's no excuse.

Mr. Giggles: 11:13

No it is not, in my mind, seems like a perfectly reasonable excuse to not be speaking a language.

Dr. Schnitzel: 11:19

Well, in other countries, maybe Not in us.

Mr. Giggles: 11:22

You should be prepared. Yep, so I suppose this first, my son's first experience in the country was a lack of friendliness. I don't know if that anecdote would line up with the numbers. We are a science-based podcast, so that's right.

Dr. Schnitzel: 11:42

Well, we can only take numbers that others provide for us, and thankfully we also surveyed that friendliness part Good.

Mr. Giggles: 11:49

All right, thank you, internations.

Dr. Schnitzel: 11:50

Yes, thank you for that. And well, we don't have to look very far, because when it comes to friendliness, austria comes out last. Oh boy. So first we're second to last, our last.

Mr. Giggles: 12:02

Well, that's good. That then kind of helps explain why it's so hard to settle here. I mean, I guess those two things are pretty you probably go high on the handstand together.

Dr. Schnitzel: 12:10

That's true. I mean, the people here can be very friendly.

Mr. Giggles: 12:14

Sure, but if you're out on a trail hiking, yes.

Dr. Schnitzel: 12:21

Well, what you shouldn't do is like ride the elevator if you don't want to. Yeah, I mean, I guess he was breaking the rules as well.

Mr. Giggles: 12:29

Where is Austria in the list of rule followers? Probably pretty high, I mean.

Dr. Schnitzel: 12:34

I'm sure there's a corruption index as well, but I haven't looked that up. But you know, that's actually the main difference between Germans and Austrians. Like, both of them love rules and love regulations and setting up new rules. Yeah, the difference between Germans and Austrians is that the Germans actually follow through with that. What so meaning? In Austria you have tons of laws and regulations, but there's usually a way around it. Okay, but no real enforcement.

Mr. Giggles: 13:01

So when you go to Germany, you must I wasn't sure if you were starting into a joke there, or is this going to get us canceled in German?

Dr. Schnitzel: 13:11

No, the Germans. Actually I got that from like a German professor. Oh, okay, Like he was actually telling us like the Austrian students you know you have a good living in Austria because in Germany, when we have a rule, we have to follow through with it. There's no way you can avoid it, but you guys.

Mr. Giggles: 13:28

You chuckleheads can get away with anything.

Dr. Schnitzel: 13:31

Yeah, so okay, you have freedom.

Mr. Giggles: 13:33

All right, well, so, okay. So there seems to be, there seems to be some sort of common denominator in at least in the. I mean, if three of the bottom five countries in settling you mentioned Austria and Germany and Switzerland were all like within the bottom five or so. How about in the friendliness, the friendliness survey, like where they had a top five for unfriendliness versus what's on in Germany or what?

Dr. Schnitzel: 14:10

I do know is that Germany and Switzerland must be Friendlier. They're at least friendlier, are they in the? I didn't I don't think I remember that, like a, didn't bring all my numbers with me today. Well, I'm sorry.

Mr. Giggles: 14:26

That's fine. That's fine. Well, because I was thinking, maybe I mean if, if these German speaking countries like why? Why is German such an unfriendly language? Is that the problem?

Dr. Schnitzel: 14:39

I don't know. It must be. I don't think when you ask people, okay, if you cannot speak the the local language, yet, like, you're moving to a country cannot speak a lot local language, how hard is it to get around without that language? And the average number is like 32% of people worldwide say, like, not speaking the language is a problem. Okay, but when it comes to Austria, 45% of the people say it's a problem. So these are the expats.

Dr. Schnitzel: 15:05

That's ex-expert moving into Austria saying Like, so they agree on. 45% of them agree. It's tough when you don't speak German. That's especially interesting. Here's another number for us there's an English proficiency Ranking. Yeah, so like, okay, when you go to some country, how good is the English that's being spoken there? Yeah, and in this ranking, again, austria is quite extreme. Austria is in spots number three. I think it's just the European countries, though. So like, if you're in Austria, the percentage, like, of English speakers or people capable speaking English, yeah, it's really high. It's really high. Yet Even though, like, every Austrian basically speaks English, the expats say 45% of them say yeah, it doesn't make sense, I can't, like, I can't go around, like, if I say you speak English, yeah, a little, a little, a little.

Dr. Schnitzel: 15:51

Yeah, they come and answer but still the the expats don't get what they need from the Austrians Without, yeah, bridging that gap of, like the foreign language they don't speak it.

Mr. Giggles: 16:02

Yeah, that's interesting. So, german being unfriendly as a language, that seems to be what a thought I mean. You're pretty nice.

Dr. Schnitzel: 16:10

Well, friendly? I'm only friendly when I don't speak German.

Mr. Giggles: 16:14

True, I guess most of our conversations aren't English. So that's, you have a false image.

Dr. Schnitzel: 16:21

Yeah, quite unfriendly. You should see me on the street when I'm talking to my speaking friends. Yeah, just a lot of unfriendliness. Yeah, that's of aggression and that's of hostility.

Mr. Giggles: 16:32

When I was teaching at a school in the States, we had a pair of twins who were foreign exchange students from Germany and I was walking through the halls once and Heard them having a conversation. This was before obviously had any experience in Austria, so I was a, I was ignorant to, to maybe some tonal things and and they're just, you know, they're having a conversation and it sounded really intense and and so afterwards I had one of the twins in my, in my class. I'm like are you and your brother okay? Like were you guys fighting in the halls? Like I didn't want to like interrupt because I thought I might get a punch, you know, and he's like no, we were just we're just having a conversation about one of our classes.

Mr. Giggles: 17:20

Like, was it a bad conversation? I'm like no, we were just kind of talking. He said you know, sir, german's kind of an aggressive language. That's all right, that's. That was my first introduction, I think, to the just how it feels unfriendly, but I don't know if that I mean that doesn't necessarily translate into why expats would feel that they like Don't fit in or or can't get around if they don't have a high German fluency. Yeah, I mean at.

Dr. Schnitzel: 17:50

First of all, of course, the, the German language, has this Reputation that it sounds very harsh and aggressive. Yeah, I'm not kidding you. Today even a student asked me in class. She asked me okay, how do you say I love you in German? Yeah, beginner's class. And I say, okay, I mean I'm gonna say I love you. And she was like but, mister, can you say it in the most aggressive way possible? How make it more sound, more aggressive? And then, like all the other students started, started saying I love you, like in German, in a very aggressive manner, boy. So we did that for a minute or so, which channel up in German love wins. I think, of course, the language will have to do something with it, but the language often reflects the culture in general and the attitude. Sure, that's been Conveyed and transported to speak. Yeah, because it's incredible. That's the, the expats. They say that 45% of the people are unfriendly here in the world. What average is 18%? Okay, so it's 43%. Trust, anything you have to say now?

Mr. Giggles: 19:04

Change in numbers on me.

Dr. Schnitzel: 19:05

No. So 43% say the natives in Austria are quite Unfriendly towards foreigners. Yeah, the truth is Austrian natives are unfriendly to Austrian.

Mr. Giggles: 19:19

It's not just the foreigners. Yeah, don't take a personal expats. Well, something you have to anybody well you do, because there is discrimination. This is there's racism. That, yeah, austria doesn't have the greatest track record when it comes to it's dealing with people they see as outsiders.

Dr. Schnitzel: 19:34

So and that's kind of a funny thing to say, but awesome, maybe a disturbing thing to say you know these, these numbers make them the news. That's why we have brought them with with me today, because an australic is like hey, yeah, we're number one, yeah. Yeah we did it. We did it. So like Vienna again ranks as the top city in the world for years and years and years. And then the friendliness index it's become worse and worse, like I think we can't go lower than that.

Dr. Schnitzel: 19:59

We're out right now and some people, some often say, well, I don't care about that because we should be, and if love these people don't come like if the love these tourists don't come around, then this place will be much nicer anyway. So we don't care, which, of course, is a very short-sighted Statements. However it's. These are real statements that people right people believe in, believe in.

Mr. Giggles: 20:22

I don't know if knowing that Makes the settling process easier.

Dr. Schnitzel: 20:26

Hmm.

Mr. Giggles: 20:26

If you can kind of just chalk up the difficult Experiences at a Vs office or something to just all well, that's just a reflection of the culture, so on we go. I mean, maybe that makes it easier to settle in, but you Well, I think you have to brace yourselves when you touch down with a plane at the airport.

Dr. Schnitzel: 20:45

Because Vienna is actually known for a long time, even like the Germans know that, like I mean, the closer neighbors know that, and especially Vienna compared to other places in the country of Austria. Vienna has this special term. It's called grant and it describes some sort of grumpiness, can you say the grumpiness Like people are grumpy, but that's not really like, sometimes, not all the time, it's just some characteristic that pops up in the right moment or in the wrong moment maybe. And it's just common knowledge that when you are out in the street and you meet someone you cannot expect like a friendly interaction. It's not, it's not what you should be expecting. It might happen. Then you have a good day, yeah, lucky moment. However, it's not unusual to have an encounter that in some other cultures and some other countries would be considered very rude. So some say that's a bad thing, some say it's a good thing, just a thing.

Mr. Giggles: 21:42

I guess I mean it's, I do think, understanding that a little bit better and just, yeah, just bracing yourself for the potential rudeness, or perceived rudeness, makes things a little bit easier. I'd be really curious as to like what people's perceptions of what they were getting into ahead of time, like what that has to do with their perception after they've lived here. So like if they expected it to be super easy to settle here and everybody was going to be friendly, and maybe they're just moving from Mexico, and so they moved from America to Mexico and had a great experience, and now they're moving to Vienna and they're expecting the same. Maybe that makes it feel that much harder. It's just strange that, like that, the number would be so high for the people saying that you have to like be fluent in German to like get by here in Austria because of the proficiency of English being so high and it's a very like.

Mr. Giggles: 22:44

Especially Vienna is a very international place, yeah anyway, I mean, I try my best to go through the day, which is, like my very basic German, not speaking English and like you know, I try I try, Keep on doing it, Yay, but I also know that like I wouldn't have to like there's.

Mr. Giggles: 23:04

There's obviously some situations where there's where it seems like maybe as you get farther away from the center of town and you go to a store somewhere out here near us, you might encounter more workers who don't feel comfortable enough with their English, even though they probably are perfectly proficient and their English is probably better than our German?

Dr. Schnitzel: 23:23

That is the question. They might have taken, I don't know, seven years of English in school, yeah, and like on paper they really, I mean, they're very, very well educated. Yeah, but they might have never used it, sure, in like a real conversation, because they never met real English speakers, yeah, and then they don't feel comfortable doing it and say, okay, well, I don't feel comfortable speaking that foreign language, even though I know, like all the grammar rules and everything like for seven years or 10 years, I don't know. But then they say, but this is Austria and it's a German speaking country, so therefore you have to speak German. Yeah, not gonna do it the way you want me to. Yeah, like my country, my rules.

Mr. Giggles: 23:57

Right, and that's that's fair. That's not a bad thing.

Dr. Schnitzel: 24:01

The Austrians are often described to be a little more easygoing than the Germans, but still they can be very direct and very rough on the outside. And it's like every year I talk, I talk about this with my students, or they actually talk to me about this, they bring it up and I always ask me, mr, why are the Austrians so impolite, why are they so grumpy? Yeah, and so on. And I just happened to talk to a colleague of mine who's Brazilian and we just talked about how the Austrians are like this, yeah, and he was like, I mean, typical Brazilian guy, like very positive guy and like how you imagine Brazilians, and he was saying you know, in Brazil, when you meet people, they're very friendly to you, but then you turn around and all your stuff is gone. Oh, geez.

Mr. Giggles: 24:43

Okay, so we've offended Germans, we've offended.

Dr. Schnitzel: 24:46

Brazilians Good. Well, the Brazilian offended his own people, so I'm just quoting him. Yeah, but I don't think that. I don't think that gets you off the hook, Luke. Okay, we can invite the Brazilian like I have. I'll have it on the show, Bring him here and let him get all the one statement please.

Dr. Schnitzel: 25:03

Yeah, just tell me what you told me about Brazil. However, I mean, there are cultures that will be very friendly on the outside, and you know what I mean. They can just lie to you in a way, but be very friendly, yeah.

Mr. Giggles: 25:16

I think there's certain like cultural indicators that other people studied and that we don't have any of those numbers.

Mr. Giggles: 25:23

But, like I know that there's, there is this classification of cultures. You know the whole spectrum of. You know cold cultures, that you know, with a lot of European cultures that seem very unfriendly and probably are at the surface level, all the way to the very warm cultures that are. You know, when you first meet somebody they treat you like you're their long lost family member or something, and yet you never get kind of beyond that initial surface greeting. So there's, I mean, I guess people are people, so they well you've offended all the people.

Mr. Giggles: 26:00

Second book second books titled people with people. So why should we get along so awfully? And so I think people are going to Reflect the way they were raised in the places they were in, right, and so that's. We make these big, these big statements about countries because they're made up of individuals. And yet for what purpose? Because, like, obviously, every single one of the people in that internation survey, I would imagine, has a very unique and different experience. Yeah, different backgrounds, and yeah, they're coming from different backgrounds different expectations, and they have different encounters and they live in different neighborhoods.

Mr. Giggles: 26:38

And so I guess, as we do this podcast for the person who is maybe living here or hoping to live here, what tips would we give somebody? Maybe somebody who's who's perceiving a call in their life to go move to another country, right, or they have a job offer to Vienna and they're considering this and they look up these surveys and they see, yeah, it's a great place to live, but it's really hard to get settled. Yeah, like, how do we? How do we help these people? Well, I mean the Austrian and you might say don't come.

Dr. Schnitzel: 27:11

Yeah, that's my first tip don't move here. Yeah, but if you really do have to move here, good luck. But I think the main expectation as you touch down, like on the airport, I think should be if you encounter any unfriendliness, then it's sometimes more of a value. Like we talk about different values in cultures. Yeah, like the opposite value would be, like other, like warmer cultures would be okay. I'm gonna lie to your face because, but I, like I don't want to offend you. Yeah, even though I'm, I'm not even you know some countries you ask for directions and they will tell you wrong directions. Yeah, just because they don't want to offend, like, so I don't know the other way.

Mr. Giggles: 27:50

Like they don't want to shame.

Dr. Schnitzel: 27:52

It's a shame that you or them right in Austria, it's kind of the other way around. When they are unfriendly to you, they would often just be that in order to establish order, yeah, you'll tell you what's wrong, what you should, should not do, what you're not supposed to do.

Mr. Giggles: 28:06

Yeah, they're really helping the outsider in some ways, right Like yes, I mean, we would have never known, you know, like the elevator, the elevator situation, if our neighbor hadn't so kindly told, yes, our son that he's not allowed.

Dr. Schnitzel: 28:17

Yes, and sometimes you might end up in tears and feeling ashamed of yourself. Hey, that's just learning.

Mr. Giggles: 28:24

This is just learning. It's like your class man.

Dr. Schnitzel: 28:27

Yeah, but I think the one thing that that the Austrians some yeah be an ease especially, but they how they deal with it, is just not to take it too seriously. I know it's hard to do that when, like someone's really screaming at your face.

Mr. Giggles: 28:40

Yeah, getting it's like getting shimped on the on the ubon.

Dr. Schnitzel: 28:43

Yeah right over a fun experience Right, and you don't know what you're doing wrong because you don't speak a language yet.

Mr. Giggles: 28:47

So they're probably yelling at you and venerate as well.

Dr. Schnitzel: 28:50

That's even harder, even harder, to understand them. Standard remember and they might be drunk. Drunk, then it might be a different story. At 10 am they will Talk. Maybe it's not impossible either. Nope, nope. But they might be offended because of some Politics or some politician. Yeah, who knows you know.

Mr. Giggles: 29:10

So tip one Out of all that tip one is to not maybe not take it so seriously. Yeah, maybe tip one B is to like figure out that there is like a learning Opportunity there, right like there's even in the midst of somebody's unfriendliness or perceived unfriendliness there is from their perspective. They are just trying to to tell you the right order of things or how to do things correctly and I think having a mind towards that of like, okay, well, I just got yelled at in public. You know, what does this tell me? Obviously you can't figure that out a lot of times on your own, so maybe that leads into tip two.

Mr. Giggles: 29:48

Yeah, what is it tip two? I mean, I think it's. It's one thing that that you have been and and I think you've you've also Encouraged you over times as to having those friends around you who are locals, like build a relationship with people, which takes time, as you know, we haven't really got into, but maybe that'll be for another podcast but to have somebody around you to help explain. But I think, in trying to learn those things, having a local person that you trust, obviously that's harder to do if you're just landing at the airport and getting yelled at yes, how many tips are we giving?

Dr. Schnitzel: 30:25

Well, I think there's. You have another tip, I think tip three. I'm going to start with a question. Oh, it's a hard tip. I think the question I'm going to throw out here is how can it be that Vienna is the top number one city to live in the world while at the same time it's the most unfriendly place? How do those two things come together in our due day at all? And I think the answer that I've found to myself is Vienna is such a nice place to live and it really is. You can't confirm, we have the numbers down to it. And the reason why some people become uneasy with strangers is because some are words that people might damage, might break that nice little thing. That's almost like a little urban paradise, and if you act the wrong way you might ruin it and ruin the experience for the locals as well for anyone else. So people might be very sensible Saying don't do the wrong thing, because we've taken ages to build this city.

Mr. Giggles: 31:28

We're protecting what we have.

Dr. Schnitzel: 31:30

And if you walk a red blight, you're endangering the safety of the whole city.

Mr. Giggles: 31:35

That's what we're looking for.

Dr. Schnitzel: 31:37

Confident, exactly. So if you take it from that point of view, maybe understand those people that you are kind of want to become friends with here. I mean, there are crazy people here, there are cruel people here, there are racist people here. As a matter of fact, there's another study that's just brand new Talk about racism, and the top two nations that came out, you might guess it Number one Germany, number two Austria. Oh boy something. It's like 70 something percent of people with darker skin here in Vienna said they have had bad experiences.

Mr. Giggles: 32:09

So that's true as well, and that has nothing to do with keeping the quality of the city's life intact, although my guess is that if you talk to those people on the subjective level, they're probably thinking that they are protecting Because they think that these people are going to these outsiders. They're obviously outsiders because they look different than what they think an insider should look like.

Dr. Schnitzel: 32:30

And it comes down to this basic human fear that whatever is strange might be dangerous. And so if people look strange, like they don't look like a local, some people immediately perceive them as dangerous, although this might be like a UN officer working for the peace Right, like a whole world, and just happen to have, or it could be like a third or fourth generation Austrian. That's possible as well. That's why it's possible. So of course, that has to be said. There might be people who are not just having the best interest of the city in mind and they just want to be cruel to you, but in both ways, vienna is still one of the safest places in the world as well.

Dr. Schnitzel: 33:10

So, and even though crimes do happen, it's very rare, but of course there's discrimination. Yet, like I said, some just want to keep order, and so it's one way of welcoming you to this country is to teach you, make you feel like you're belonging. Like you said, that's a very, very valuable tip to say find some local friends and try to get into that, and I think we'll probably cover this in the next episode. Yeah, how to make friends.

Mr. Giggles: 33:36

How to make friends and ask you Because that's another tough thing.

Dr. Schnitzel: 33:40

since we are so unfriendly, we're not looking for new friends.

Mr. Giggles: 33:45

So I don't know if the point of our podcast is to encourage people to move here or not move here, just believe. Just to just to put it all out there. Yeah, this is obviously our experiences as an expat and a local guy born and raised here who has experienced a lot of we have. Yeah, I mean, your interaction with expats, both former and current, is one that I think it brings a lot of of insight into what somebody might be having to go through.

Dr. Schnitzel: 34:15

So, and I think what we can provide here is at least you know what's coming at you if you decide to live here, or if you're already living here. Maybe some things make more sense now. Hopefully A current expat, or an ex expat, or a former ex, current path, I don't know what I'm saying. All right, I think we're good and bye, bye. I think we are ready for a good and bye, bye. Cheers.